Continuing the Conversation
April 14, 2008
Continuing the Conversation recaps some things we talked about on Sunday and invites continued engagement with the conversation. Hopefully, it’s one more avenue for Beggar’s people to keep engaging as well as an invitation for folks not with us on Sunday to join in.
We have started a series I’m really excited about called “Echoes of a Voice.” The idea is that we recognize universal “longings” that all humanity shares regardless of faith background and cultural setting. We attribute these universal longings to a creator who yearns for his creation to be restored to how it “ought” to be. Those longings are inherent in his creation/us.
Last week we discussed the universal longing for justice (prosperity, security, and equity to all).
This week we discussed the universal longing for spirituality noting the West’s attempt since the 19th century to “sanitize” spirituality and treat us as if we are primarily only physical beings. Our consensus last night was that (according to the signs of the times) this is no longer working.
Here’s one of my favorite quotes from N.T. Wright about this:
“September 11th, 2001, serves as a reminder of what happens when you try to organize a world on the assumption that religion and spirituality are merely private matters, and that what really matters is economics and politics instead…what should we say? That this merely shows how dangerous religion and spritiuality really are? Or that we should have taken them into account all along?”
Hey Jon, this series is really appealing in a way such as how important it is thinking not only in our local impact but the rest of the world.
In regards to Latin America, I think there is anoher big issue about spirituality. I’m not quite sure but I always heard when I started being involved with the protestants that there was a era(60’s – 70’s maybe 80’s) when a lot of american missionaries came to the speaking-spanish countries bringing “the gospel” (with all this idealistic western private faith idea) and founded a lot of local churches. As you know Latin America it’s mostly Catholic (from Spain), so there’s a interesting dinamic down there because what the protestants preaches sometimes the most is that even you being catholic you’re no even a christian and you need to accept Jesus as your savior and all that protocol.
I thik being catholic down there is part of the culture and nobody feels that is something private, but rather it is something really open and things such as weddings, baptisms, graduations, celebrations are really related to dedicating it to God in a most natural way even if you are not really commited.
I don’t say that being Catholic is something I want to be. I think they have really good things to admire. But my journey has been pretty crazy…I was raised in that culture and then I changed to the other side (protestant) and after 10 years of being evangelical it seems there’s something missing.
I really appreciate to hear how spirituality is about a seamless faith and not something I should keep in private.
Allen – thanks for the thoughtful insights. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate your journey…I totally know the feeling of “something missing.”
I find that there are rich practices and truths in both Catholic and Protestant heritages. Unfortunately our cultures/history usually position one against the other and I think this is rather harmful.
I’d like to talk more about the Latin America spiritual/religious experience…I don’t know for sure but my inclination is that there is more of a seamlessness there…
That N.T. Wright quote is really great. I’d forgotten about it. Simply Christian right? It makes me think of the point Walsh and Keesmaat make in “Colossians Remixed.” The night of 9/11 when the president offerred his speech to the nation which was intended to unite and calm everyone, his big punch line was “America is open for business.” Is that really what calms and unites us as a people? I don’t think it was intended to be that way. They (W&K) say that the reason religion is relegated to the private is so that what can be held in common in a public way will be related to commerce and country. Interesing…
Tim – the quote is from Simpy Christian. Have you read his latest? I can’t wait to get to it. I love the conversation about privitized vs public faith and the “feminization” of the gospel. Fascinating…
I thought Simply Christian was his latest? I have to admit my own geekdom. I just spent like 80 bucks buying the first three volumes of his series of big books – on the resurrection the church etc. That means i have about 1800-2000 pages of NT Wright to wade through this summer. What makes me a geek is that I’m all revved up about it.
Tim – He has a recent book out that’s called (I think) Surprised by Hope. It seems like he’s intentionally playing off of CS Lewis titles – Simply Christian (Mere Christianity) and now Surprised by Hope (Surprised by Joy).
I’ve actually waded through a lot of the Resurection of Christ – of course I love it…I find it to be very apologetic in nature…part of me was hoping for something different…